S1E5 - Advocacy Series: 27 Years of Narcolepsy: From Rock Bottom to Elite Trainer

What does it look like to build an extraordinary life with narcolepsy — without medication?

Welcome to the Narcolepsy Navigators Advocacy Series, where lived experience meets powerful storytelling. This week, Kerly and Liz sit down with David Kuhn: a 27-year narcolepsy survivor, elite master fitness trainer, licensed massage therapist, and founder of the Facebook community Narcolepsy Naturally.

David's journey is one of the most remarkable we've heard. Diagnosed in 1998 at around age 28, he went from being unable to work, experiencing up to 40 cataplexy episodes a day, and reaching a personal rock bottom — to becoming a therapist for the Ohio State University football team, working with over 62 NFL players, Olympic gold medalists, and hundreds of elite athletes. And he has done all of this since 2010 entirely without narcolepsy medication.

In this honest, emotional, and deeply inspiring conversation, David shares what it actually took — the discipline, the baby steps, the mental frameworks, the dietary changes, the fitness routine, and the hard decision to remove toxic stress from his life — to get to where he is today.

He is not here to tell anyone what to do. He is here to show what is possible.

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WHAT YOU'LL HEAR IN THIS EPISODE
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• The early symptoms David dismissed as tiredness from overwork
• Falling asleep at the wheel — and the near-miss that finally sent him to a doctor
• A devastating diagnosis with no hope offered by his first doctor
• Medication overload, a mental health crisis, and the decision to walk out of a psych ward
• Rock bottom, and the moment that changed everything
• How he went back to school at 38 to become a massage therapist — medication-free
• His daily routine: sleep tracking, gym before 7:30am, whole foods, strategic napping
• Why he started the Narcolepsy Naturally Facebook group in 2015
• The mental strategies that keep him going: audiobooks, self-help, positive input
• Book recommendations: Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, Let Them Theory (Mel Robbins), Think and Grow Rich (Napoleon Hill)
• How he uses narcolepsy as a "shock factor" to inspire the athletes he works with
• His powerful message: narcolepsy is your soccer field, not your prison
• The Red Button Question — and his answer will not surprise you

⚠️ NOTE: This episode contains discussion of suicidal ideation and mental health crisis within David's personal story. Please take care of yourself first.

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CONNECT WITH DAVID
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🌐 dkmotivations.com
📧 muscletherapypro@gmail.com
👥 Facebook: Narcolepsy Naturally (3,500+ members)

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BOOKS RECOMMENDED IN THIS EPISODE
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📚 The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People — Stephen Covey
📚 The Let Them Theory — Mel Robbins
📚 Think and Grow Rich — Napoleon Hill
📚 The Power of Now — Eckhart Tolle (recommended by Liz)

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SUPPORT NARCOLEPSY NAVIGATORS
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💜 Join our Patreon for bonus content & Discord community access
🛍️ Shop our merch at napsforlife.com
🌐 www.napsforlife.com
📩 narcolepsynavigators@gmail.com

Have a sleep disorder story to share? We'd love to hear from you. Happy napping, everyone.

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Transcript

David Kuhn N1

[00:00:00] Speaker 2: Welcome to the brand-new advocacy series on the Narcolepsy Navigators Podcast, where lived experience meets powerful storytelling, and every voice makes a difference. I'm your host, Kerly. In this special series, we're shining a light on the change makers, advocates, and the everyday heroes who are breaking the silence in their field.

[00:00:28] Speaker 2: Each episode will take you behind the scenes of what it really means to fight for awareness, equality, and understanding in healthcare, education, employment, and beyond. From patients and parents to professionals and policy shapers, we'll hear how they are navigating systems, building communities, and driving change.

[00:00:45] Speaker 2: Because when we speak up, things shift. When we come together, we move mountains. Get ready to be inspired, informed, and empowered. This is advocacy in action. This is Narcolepsy Navigators [00:01:00] Podcast.

[00:01:08] Kerly Joy: Hi everyone. Welcome to Narcolepsy Navigators. I'm Kerly, your host. I have narcolepsy, type one, 

[00:01:14] liz: and I'm Liz, your co-host.

[00:01:16] liz: And I also have narcolepsy with cataplexy. 

[00:01:19] Kerly Joy: And today we are here with David Kuhn and he's from the US and welcome to the advocacy series. 

[00:01:25] David: Hello guys. Thank you so much for having me. 

[00:01:29] Kerly Joy: Thank you for being here with us. And now Liz, let's tell us something about David. 

[00:01:36] liz: So David is a narcolepsy survivor of more than 27 years.

[00:01:41] liz: And while this condition once cost him everything, it also gave him the greatest gift purpose. What he once saw as his biggest obstacle has become his biggest blessing, shaping who he is and how he serves others today. With over 11 years as an elite master [00:02:00] fitness trainer and licensed massage therapist, he's dedicated his career to helping people unlock their full physical and mental potential.

[00:02:08] liz: His passion for recovery, performance and wellness has led him to work with over 62 NFL players, along with MBA athletes Olympic gold medalists, and hundreds of college competitors. For seven years, he served as a therapist for the Ohio State University football team, where he had the honor of helping world class athletes stay healthy, recover and perform at their peak beyond the treatment room.

[00:02:34] liz: He serves on the advisory board for Washington State Community College, have spoken at multiple college graduation and leads as 

Intro & David's Bio

[00:02:50] liz: president of the Lewis Center am Spirit Business Connections chapter, empowering professionals to connect and grow. As the founder, as of MBS Massage Business Solutions, he mentors therapists and wellness professionals in building successful sustainable [00:03:00] practices.

[00:03:01] liz: He is also part of a bioactive precision peptide company that made history by reaching 100 million in its first 11 months, redefining what's possible in modern wellness today. Through his work and his organization, narcolepsy, naturally, he's dedicated to inspiring others to see that every setback can become a set up, and that purpose often comes from pain.

[00:03:26] liz: His massage office is based in Columbus, Ohio, where every client he meets is another reminder that healing, growth and transformation are always possible. 

[00:03:35] Kerly Joy: Wow. Welcome to the podcast, David. Thank you. I read your bio. I like, I've been on your, on Narcolepsy Naturals for years, but when I read your bio, I said, oh, wow.

[00:03:46] Kerly Joy: David doesn't even sound like he has narcolepsy at all. I but I love that and that's why I said yes, I need you on the advocacy series. The people, we've had an advocacy series so far is a doctor and someone else who also has narcolepsy. [00:04:00] But I just thought this is very inspiring to show people like a different side of living.

Diagnosis Story

[00:04:05] Kerly Joy: take us back what year were you diagnosed? 

[00:04:07] David: Okay. And I'll tell you just as we start talking here, it's this is good because instantly, I started bringing tears to my eyes because. This what you say, how, a lot of people don't realize I have narcolepsy because of a lot of things that I am doing, but and that's the great shock factor you're able to share with them after they know this side of your, then you're able to say, oh yeah, and I also have narcolepsy.

[00:04:30] David: Thank you for the honor to come on here on your show and talk today because every opportunity I have to talk about it, to help somebody else. It's a reminder of where the journey I've been on. But to answer your question, it was back in, I believe 1998 is when I first got diagnosed with narcolepsy.

[00:04:49] Kerly Joy: So what was that like before 1998? How long were you having symptoms or how long did you feel like something was off in your body before you went on your journey to finally get [00:05:00] diagnosed? 

[00:05:01] David: At that time I was a young father. I was working tons of hours in a factory and then building houses on the side of my ex father-in-law.

[00:05:11] David: So I was already feeling tired, so I was having these symptoms, but I just wasn't thinking. I never once thought, oh my goodness, I have narcolepsy. I just thought I work a lot. I'm tired, I fall asleep constantly. It finally got to a point of where, when I was driving, I would fall asleep numerous times and I always woke up and it got to the point of where I would let myself fall asleep.

[00:05:37] David: 'cause I knew I'd always wake up because I was horrible as it sounds. I knew as I got toward the edge of the road, it'd start making the noise. It'd wake me up and I'd be fine because it happened so many times. It's so scary now thinking back. But I got so used to that and then I would start seeing what I called.

[00:05:55] David: Trolls like running across the road. And I knew that's when I need to stop driving 'cause I [00:06:00] didn't realize at the time that my brain was going to sleep and I was going into the dreaming stage while I was still awake. So I was having the hallucination seeing that, and I just thought, okay, I'm seeing things now.

[00:06:12] David: I need to let my ex-wife drive or whatever, or pull off and sleep alongside the road. And then one morning on the way to work, after sleeping all night having tons of sleep, I fell asleep again and went off the road, almost hit a tree. And when I got to work I went to the nurse there where I works and was I need to go get checked, something's going on.

[00:06:30] David: I went to the hospital and they checked me and it was like, you have sleep apnea and we're also going to test you for narcolepsy. And I had no idea what narcolepsy was, so they did a sleep test and all that and. It came back, everything right on. I had narcolepsy.

[00:06:46] David: And so my doctor tells me, I'm like what is narcolepsy it? Does that mean I'm a narc? I'm gonna tell on people. I said, I don't know what narcolepsy is. So he explained to me and I'm, and that's how I was diagnosed. That's how I [00:07:00] found out I had narcolepsy. 

[00:07:01] liz: And how old were you at that time?

[00:07:03] David: Oh gee, I think I was 28, maybe 26 or 28.

[00:07:10] liz: And how did that feel when you were actually diagnosed? Because obviously you didn't know what it was, so then I assume you had to do some research into it and it sunk in. 

[00:07:19] David: Yeah. I'll tell you, it was scary because my doctor at that time he gave me no hope.

[00:07:23] David: He never gave me any there could be some lifestyle changes that could help you help eve some of the symptoms. He laid it out. He said, this is gonna happen. You're gonna feel like this. You're gonna blah, blah, blah, blah. You're gonna have to take this kind of medication chances are you're gonna be going on disability.

[00:07:42] David: No hope. He gave me all the negative stuff and just threw a bunch of medicine at me. So I went home and within a matter of two months now, I was unable to work after being healthy and working all this time. For the next six months I was unable to [00:08:00] work, sitting at home basically in a catatonic state.

[00:08:02] David: I had all the symptoms I was having up to 40 cataplexy a day sleep paralysis, hallucinations, daytime of sleepiness, all of this. And I felt like my life was over. I was done. 

[00:08:16] Kerly Joy: I can't imagine.

[00:08:17] David: Yeah it was actually my pharmacist contacted, my ex-wife called her and is are, the doctor's got Dave on all of these medications and they're all basically having an explosion within his body. And so that led her to start researching other doctors. And we found Dr. Martin Scharf.

[00:08:39] David: He was about two and a half hours away from us and he was one of the ones that helped with designing the GHB drug. And he took me on from pro bono, meaning that he didn't charge anything to work with the doctor I was with because he was a narcoleptic specialist. And he is I wanna help Dave to get better.

[00:08:59] David: And I'm, [00:09:00] I ended up my doctor that I was with, he had called my ex-wife to find out, see how I'm doing all this stuff. And, put me on the phone and the nurse had asked me, how are you feeling? What's your quality of life? And I told her, I said, I'm worthless. I have no quality of life.

[00:09:15] David: I'm of no use to my family. I can't even support them. The school had to come together to get presents for my kids at Christmas because I'm unable to work. And I said, I feel like I'm better off not here. And that's the first thing you don't say to a doctor or to a nurse. 'cause that'll land you right in the hospital.

[00:09:36] Kerly Joy: Yeah, hospital.

[00:09:36] David: They told my wife said, bring him in. He needs to be at the hospital. So that, she brought me in and they told me they were going to go ahead and do some more studies and stuff. And they actually admitted me in and, I said what's going on? Why am I back in here?

[00:09:51] David: And he's we are putting you into the psych ward for evaluation. Because I made that statement. And I said, so what are they gonna do [00:10:00] here? And he's we're gonna have group therapy. The doctors are gonna talk to you. And I said, so any of these doctors have narcolepsy?

[00:10:06] David: Any of these people in group have narcolepsy? And they're no. And I said, how in the world can they help me? They don't understand what I'm going through. They just read it in a book in school. And to have somebody that actually has it you can talk to is so powerful. I was scared to death because the same doctor put me on all this medication now is saying that I'm crazy and trying to put me into a hospital.

[00:10:28] David: So we snuck outta the hospital and my ex-wife got my clothes. We, I got 'em on and we snuck outta the hospital. And I got in touch with, the other doctor, and he helped me. I get off all the medication that I was on except for Ritalin, and I was on Ritalin, 40 milligrams twice a day for the next 10 years.

[00:10:47] David: And I had a better quality of life. We have our ups and downs when the medicines kicked in, we're good to go. When it drops off, we're dropping off.

[00:10:56] liz: Wow. That sounds like a really scary and [00:11:00] almost like a rock bottom moment where you were I just don't wanna do this anymore.

[00:11:04] liz: How did you get through that period mentally? 

[00:11:09] David: Since you said rock bottom, we'll jump onto that rock bottom and with the mental part. So I was still mentally it was very tough. I didn't feel like I was a human anymore. I felt like I was, my medication,. I didn't know who Dave Coon was anymore.

[00:11:25] David: But I was still able to work that time. 'cause with getting on Lin, I was able to get back to work. But then I went through a very ugly divorce and through that I divorce, I didn't have my ex-wife there anymore to make sure I was awake in the morning because, so I could get to work.

[00:11:44] David: So I went through a lot of depression. Went from being a father that was reading stories to my four kids at night every night before he go to bed, to now being this father's living in an apartment by himself without his kids and has narcolepsy trying to deal with [00:12:00] and depression set in.

[00:12:01] David: Symptoms came on really strong. I ended up losing my job. So now I'm, I am sitting at, between, owing my ex-wife a lot of money. Then I just lose my job and I have narcolepsy and I hit rock bottom and that was my rock bottom. And I then I gave up. Know we all have choices we can make and I made the bad choice.

 Rock Bottom

[00:12:27] David: I gave up, I tried to commit suicide and I had stepped out in middle traffic three o'clock in the morning, cars all swerved, went around and I was still there. So that was my rock bottom. But it was also the best thing that happened to me 'cause I couldn't go any further down. I was had rock bottom.

[00:12:47] David: I had to climb up out and I was like, if I can just get a hold of one thing in my life and master it, then I can get the next thing and I get the next thing, baby steps. Mind you, when I [00:13:00] lost my job, I didn't have any more insurance, so I couldn't get my medicine. I had went and seen a doctor and he wasn't going to gimme any more medicine until I had more sleep studies done.

[00:13:15] David: And I'd had so many done over the years and I was finally on something that was working for me. So I didn't wanna do any more sleep studies, so I refused it. And 'cause I refused it, he would no longer prescribe any medicine to me.

[00:13:29] Kerly Joy: I've heard of this happening to someone before. It's really crazy that they're allowed to do that.

[00:13:32] Kerly Joy: You can be blacklisted. 

[00:13:33] David: It is so I was left like a new medicine rock bottom, and I'm okay I'm gonna try this on my own. And I knew stress was something that really brought all my symptoms strong. So I knew I had to remove the stress of my life. And I knew I wanted to continue to working.

[00:13:50] David: So I had to find a job. Now that. Was stress-free. So I started doing my research and that's when I found massage. I thought massage has to be stress-free. You're in a nice [00:14:00] quiet room all day with soft music going. People are happy to see you. People are happy when they leave. This sounds great. So 

Going Medication-Free

[00:14:06] David: I went back to school at 38 to become a massage therapist so that I could continue because, we have narcolepsy.

[00:14:14] David: Everybody has something in their life, but it doesn't change the special person we are, i'm a special person. You're a special person. Because of this we can't look at it as a obstacle. It's just it's something special. We have, there's always some people out there that has it far worse, but what can I do with what I have?

[00:14:31] David: So I, that's why I went bicycle beam massage therapist, and it wasn't easy. It was really hard. Even, waking up, I sat 15 alarm clocks around my room, a little wind up kind with a hammer on top. It makes a bunch of noise. And I would set the time so each one would go off about five minutes apart. So by the time I got up and turned off the sixth one, I was pissed off. 

[00:14:54] Kerly Joy: Yes. 

[00:14:54] David: Because noise. So I would stay outta bed. And then eventually I was able to cut it down to 10 alarm [00:15:00] clocks and then five alarm clocks. And then now I don't use any, I just, I wake up when it happens. So that, that was a big thing. And with the stress I had to remove certain people in my life that cause stress. Such situations. It almost seems like you're being selfish, but you're not, because if you're not taking care of yourself, you can't help anybody else. So you have to put those boundaries up there. And then fitness was a huge part too, because that, I look at fitness now as my Ritalin.

[00:15:27] David: That's what like removes the stress for me. That's what keeps me going is every morning when I wake up and 30 minutes of waking up. I get, make sure I'm in the gym and get my workout in first. So then now I've taken care of Dave, I've spent the time on me, and then I can take care of everybody else.

[00:15:46] liz: You've had a real rollercoaster.

[00:15:48] David: It is baby steps, it's not, somebody looks at me and sees that I'm doing good. I'm having cataplexy right now. I'm talking to you guys, but people don't realize what it is, the cataplexy. [00:16:00] Now, I used to have all the fall down completely now.

[00:16:02] Kerly Joy: Yeah, me too. 

[00:16:03] David: But now I, yeah. Now it's the, where I lose muscle tone in my face where people think that I'm just stuttering or I'm pausing for a second and that's fine. They can think that I can live with that, but I deal with that a lot. 

[00:16:17] liz: And so are you completely medication free at the moment?

[00:16:20] David: Yes. Since 2010, I have had. Zero medication. I've seen zero doctors for narcolepsy. 

[00:16:28] liz: Wow. 

[00:16:28] David: Because, and I know half of the narcolepsy world loves this. Half the narcolepsy world hates it. But for me I chose this route. It's not for everybody by any means. I would never tell somebody, stop seeing your doctor.

[00:16:44] David: It's something you have to make that decision for yourself. But for me, I was left with a position, in a position. I felt like I was abandoned by my doctor. 

[00:16:54] David: And I've reached out to several doctors since then to use me [00:17:00] as, my results, see if it's something can do to start helping other people.

[00:17:04] David: And the doctors didn't want anything to do with that. And personally. I feel it's because there's a lot more money in medication than, 

[00:17:13] Kerly Joy: yes.

[00:17:13] David: If we were to say there's a perfect person there, is no perfect person.

[00:17:16] David: But if there was, I will never be that person. I have narcolepsy, so there's always gonna be issues I'm gonna have, but this is who I am. And instead of us focusing on I want to be like this person, I, when you do that, you cause so much damage to yourself and bring on so much more stress that you don't get a chance to start enjoying the person that you are.

[00:17:41] liz: I like that. I wonder if you approached researchers or doctors in the UK that you might have a different response Because we are not like the medical industry isn't what am I trying to say? It's not doctors are not so linked to [00:18:00] the profits of the medication. What you mean?

[00:18:02] liz: Because 

[00:18:03] Kerly Joy: of our NHS system. I see what you're saying.

[00:18:05] liz: Yeah.

[00:18:05] liz: They're a bit more neutral. They have to be like, they can't promote products or sell medications or anything 

[00:18:13] David: uhhuh. That's something I never thought about. Definitely something be open to,

[00:18:16] Kerly Joy: so David, I have to ask you, this is so interesting that we're saying this.

[00:18:20] Kerly Joy: So on our medical series, I started medical series because I wanted to highlight the comorbidities that are associated with the essential disorders of hypersomnia. And two days ago I said to. I'm gonna stop interviewing for the rest of the year. I said to Chad, GPT is there any doctors that I haven't interviewed yet that I should be interviewing for the medical series?

[00:18:43] Kerly Joy: And it said, oh yeah you were meant to be interviewing for the comorbidities. You haven't covered all of them. And so I said to them, oh, remind me of all the comorbidities for the central disorders of hypersomnia.

[00:18:53] Kerly Joy: Five different departments in the hospital, five different department, dental, cardio, [00:19:00] endocrinology other sleeping disorders.

[00:19:02] Kerly Joy: I was really out to sakara, one of the other ladies in the, in our team. And I have all the dental one, I have all the, 'cause I have five sleeping disorders. I have all the sleeping disorders associated with it. That doesn't come into then heart, then obesity and all the other things. And I'm why when we are diagnosed are the doctor's not preparing us for all these things that are coming?

[00:19:22] Kerly Joy: Exactly. And a lot of them that are coming after is also because of the medication that you're on. Like I have high blood pressure because of the medications and the fact that I have sleep apnea and NP combined now they don't tell you this. And then later on when it happens, it's oh, it almost feels like your body's deserting you or like it's bored and every time it's bored it thinks of a new illness to give you when they're all right associated with the illness itself.

[00:19:47] Kerly Joy: And I just feel if they went ahead of things or they work together, as a team and it's not just like neurologists and then the other comorbidities that are attached to us, other five departments of the hospital, then maybe they could prepare us in a [00:20:00] way that we could delay the onset or or avoid it altogether.

[00:20:06] David: No I a hundred percent agree, a hundred percent agree with that. Something that now I talk about this a lot is, I, and I'm not on any medication at all, but I can't cure narcolepsy. We all know there's no cure for narcolepsy and if we live our life waiting for that cure, we're gonna waste our entire life.

[00:20:24] David: So I had to start controlling the things around narcolepsy that I thought in my mind, didn't have anything to do with narcolepsy, like my weight, making sure I put muscle on my body, make sure I'm removing those friends that cause stress, controlling everything that I physically have control of.

[00:20:43] David: And as I started doing that, I noticed symptoms of narcolepsy started lessening and lessening. And it's just like what you are saying there, there's different things that are associated with narcolepsy. And as I was doing things I could hand that I could do to lessen that stuff around me, then my narcolepsy started [00:21:00] getting better.

[00:21:00] David: I still can't stay up and watch an entire movie. I have to get up about every 10 minutes. I, as I start talking, I start getting a little bit emotional, like in here talking with you and start having some of the symptoms. And it starts, I start feeling it. There's different things I still deal with and I always deal with, but there's certain things that we can deal with.

[00:21:22] David: It's not narcolepsy that we're not being told. Okay. It's important that maybe you're watching your diet, it's important that maybe you're, all these things. So you're right on. I agree with you. 

Daily Routine & Managing Symptoms

[00:21:34] liz: Can you walk us through your typical day of managing symptoms without medication? So everything you do in order.

[00:21:42] David: Yeah. So my typical day is I get up at 6:45 AM. I always make sure for me, my, what I call, and I made this up myself, I'm just through journaling and I wanted to find the perfect sleep schedule for me or perfect amount of [00:22:00] hours sleep. And I started out with six hours. I did that for two weeks and then six hours and 15 minutes for two weeks, six hours and 30 minutes.

[00:22:08] David: And I did that up to eight and a half hours. And then I would journal on what feel, how I felt best, how my day went and all of that stuff, how my symptoms were. And for me, I found that the, my magic number is seven hours. So I try to make sure I have seven hours of sleep. So if I go to bed at we'll make it simple math.

[00:22:28] David: If I go to bed at midnight, then I make sure I get up at seven. If I go to bed at 10, I make sure I get up at five. I don't have a set time, but generally I get up at 6 45 'cause I'm coming into work. I set it back. But with that in mind, I'm like, I have a Fitbit. I always check my numbers every morning when I wake up, see how much deep sleep, how much REM sleep, how much late sleep, how much my wait time was because my seven hours, I want that to be seven hours of actually sleep.

[00:22:57] David: So if I've gone to bed and I've had eight hours of sleep, [00:23:00] I may have been awake for an hour from the different times You wake up and go back to sleep, but you don't even realize it, but your Fitbit catches it. So I wanna make sure my actual sleep time is seven hours. I get as close as I can to that. So I said a lot right there to say that I get up at 6 45 generally in the morning.

[00:23:18] David: And then I. Get up 6 45, I'll just give it all to you. Then I go straight to the restroom. I pee. I go downstairs. I get it, it's called fit. It's my morning drink, the little drink, and then I get dressed and I make sure I'm out of the house with by seven 15 to seven 30 at the latest. So that I'm to the gym.

[00:23:40] David: I work out for an hour in the gym, and then I drink a protein shake on my way into my office. And then I massage all day long. And then I come home. I might work on the house. I might have some meetings, I different things like that. And then [00:24:00] I wind down, try to be back in bed by 10 o'clock, 10 30, something like that.

[00:24:06] liz: And do you have any naps during the day?

[00:24:08] David: I do not. I used to. And then what I do, this phone right here is a blessing because I can say, Hey, Siri, set my alarm for five minutes and I'll sit in my chair or wherever. 'cause I can fall asleep just like that. So I'll just sit there and fall asleep, five minutes starting, and my alarm goes off five minutes later and it wakes me up and I'm refreshed again.

[00:24:33] David: And I used to do that five or six times a day, and then it got down to where I was only going once or twice a day. And now I very seldom do it, but maybe once a month or something like that. Just, life happens. We have stress that we can't avoid and we get overwhelmed. And when that happens, I know it's there.

[00:24:49] David: Now I know my body and I just step back from everything and I'll take a quick nap. Just 

[00:24:54] Kerly Joy: allow it to happen. Yeah. 

[00:24:55] David: Yeah. But I can't take 

[00:24:57] liz: That is wild that you don't really nap [00:25:00] at all and you're not on medication.

[00:25:01] Kerly Joy: Know. 

[00:25:01] David: It's 

[00:25:01] Kerly Joy: amazing. 

[00:25:02] liz: And do you have specific dietary recommendation or things that you follow as well?

[00:25:08] David: I, not real specific. I meal prep a lot, which but I try to make sure it's all whole foods. I love candy and it's horrible for me. It's horrible for my narcolepsy. Do I still eat? Sometimes I do and I know what the results are gonna be and then I say I'll never do it again and then I do it.

[00:25:28] David: But as far as my eating, I try to stay away from all processed foods. Like when you go into the grocery store, just shop the outsides of the store because that's where your fruit is, that's where your meat is, your dairy, things like that. Anything that you're getting in boxes, generally it's gonna be processed and it's not good for you.

[00:25:48] David: Without narcolepsy, it's not good for you. But even with narcolepsy, it tends to set me up more. I try to stay away from, I don't have a problem with complex carbs, [00:26:00] but simple carbs I try to stay away from because that really does make me sleepy. Or if I do have too many complex carbs at once, then it will make me sleepy.

[00:26:10] Kerly Joy: What is a complex carb and what's a simple carb, for instance? 

[00:26:13] David: Simple is more like your sugar, your candy, snacks.

[00:26:17] David: Things like that complex would be more of like potatoes. Things like that. 

[00:26:21] liz: I was gonna say I love carbs, but I do not know what the different types of carbs are. And I eat them, even though I know I'm gonna fall straight faster. 

[00:26:29] David: Home. Homework assignment. When you get off here.

[00:26:32] David: Ask chat. GPT what are, difference in simple carbs and complex carbs. Give you a list and then stop shopping for the simple carbs. 

[00:26:40] Kerly Joy: Yeah, that's a good one 

[00:26:42] liz: I think. I don't wanna know, to be honest, because I don't wanna have to cut them out 

[00:26:46] David: Baby steps. Do it all. And baby steps. I only eat half of that candy bar.

[00:26:51] David: No, eat three quarters of that candy. No, today. Eat the entire candy bar tomorrow. Eat a quarter of it. 

[00:26:57] Kerly Joy: Yeah. So it's like slowly. It's, I like that [00:27:00] because then you're not giving your body like a shock and then 

[00:27:02] David: exactly. 

[00:27:02] Kerly Joy: And I think maybe the shock comes with the crave. So if you're just like slowly phasing it out instead of just like going cold Turkey or something, all of a sudden.

Narcolepsy Naturally

[00:27:12] David: Can I tell you why I started the Facebook group Narcolepsy naturally. 

[00:27:17] liz: Yeah. To us. 

[00:27:18] David: Okay. When I was first diagnosed, like all of us we're going for answers. We want to know as much as we can about this new diagnosis, what we have. We wanna be around people that has it. And so I instantly went in online and started checking different Facebook groups, chat groups for narcolepsy.

[00:27:36] David: And the more I got into, the more I felt like I had no chance. I had no hope because so many of the groups, it was more like a competition of my symptoms are worse than your symptoms. And I don't wanna compete to see who's worse, but just nobody gave me hope. It was just everybody complaining.

[00:27:56] David: And I, I completely get it. I know it's. It's not a [00:28:00] fun thing. I know what it's like to go through all this and there's nothing fun about it, but the more you're putting this into your mind and reading all the negative stuff, the less hope you have and you're gonna start feeling worse. So I actually had to get out of all of those groups 'cause it was bringing me down so much.

[00:28:18] David: And I swore that if I ever got well enough one day to where I could take care of myself again and help people, I wanted to be that person that wasn't there for me. And and that's why I started narcolepsy naturally in 2015. I don't have all the answers. I'm not a medical doctor, but I live with this.

[00:28:39] David: And I thought if I could just start something where. I'm on there to let somebody else know, hey, there's somebody else in this world that has what I have. They get me, they understand me. That's powerful just to be able to talk to somebody. So I started the group and now it's up to 3,500 people of that either have [00:29:00] narcolepsy or friends or family of somebody with narcolepsy just so they can understand what their people's going through.

[00:29:05] David: I have so many parents in there that their children have narcolepsy and it's an outlet for them 'cause they're able to see, some of what's going on. But we're very strict with trying to be positive and I've removed a lot of people that has been there for the wrong reasons or just wanted to complain.

[00:29:25] David: And I have it open to people that so they can share different things that they're trying that's working. It doesn't mean that. What I share is gonna work for everybody, but it might help one person. And what I've found in my journey is we have to keep trying stuff. We can't give up.

[00:29:41] David: We have to keep trying something. It's really cool to see how the group's grown and people will share stuff in there that's helping them. Then other people has learn things and it's helped them. I have people that I've had on my massage table here behind me that have narcolepsy that now are a part of the group and it's just, it's really cool how it's grown.

[00:29:59] David: But [00:30:00] that's why I started that 10 years ago. That's why I started it.

[00:30:03] liz: Oh, I think it's so important to have a variety in voices as well, because I'm definitely in Facebook groups where it does feel quite negative. And even though it is important for people to have a space where they can share those things, it's also nice to have a platform like yours where actually you can go and it can boost you instead of.

[00:30:25] liz: In a way, bringing you down and to see another perspective on, okay, you don't have to take medication. There is other options out there. And just a way to share what works for different people.

[00:30:37] Kerly Joy: A hundred percent. That's why I love Dawn's one as well. Dawn's has only positive on her thing.

[00:30:44] Kerly Joy: I love Dawn. Yeah.

[00:30:46] Kerly Joy: And she's been, and she's been through a really rough patch like before and really come through the other end. I love that. And she's just you have to change your perspective here, and she being an empath, she goes, she just couldn't cope in those groups.

[00:30:58] Kerly Joy: It was just like [00:31:00] she was feeling everything that everyone was saying, and it was never ever anything positive. So she needed to create a space where people could help themselves to build themselves up and be positive and change the mindset.

[00:31:10] David: And with my group, narcolepsy, naturally, I don't want anybody to ever think that it's a group that's just natural.

[00:31:16] David: You can't be on medication beyond there. 'cause that's absolutely not what it is. I, what I mean by naturally is what natural things can we do to start helping with our narcolepsy? Say, if everything's taken away from us, because with me, everything was taken away. I had nothing. I was a suicide survivor and I had to start, it's if everything's taken away what is there we can work with to help make our symptoms less?

[00:31:42] David: And that's the concept behind it. And if you're on medication I still want you to be part of it. My goal is not to get you off my med medication, but the goal is maybe to get you off of some of the medication through time. Because it's like what you said earlier, all the medication has side effects [00:32:00] and they throw another medication at you to treat that side effect.

[00:32:03] David: The medication they just gave you. 

[00:32:05] Kerly Joy: Yeah. Yeah. And it, it's just like a spiral. It just continues and continues, which is crazy. There's a friend that has, she always says that, it's so sad, but when we die, it's gonna say that we died from something else. If you continue taking the medication the way that you have to take it for that many years, it's gonna be probably something to do with one of the medications that really is what killed you and not, the

[00:32:29] David: it's so true.

[00:32:30] Kerly Joy: Yeah. Put on there instead. I think it's so important to have these other options to think about. I find people who have been diagnosed that are older or no longer parents, they're quite happy to be off meds actually, because they're like, there's so many other illness that comes with you as you get older that you can be prone to.

[00:32:49] Kerly Joy: So why put it, why increase that. All you have to do now is listen to your body. I don't think I really got it completely until I had got taken off my stimulants as on it from, I was [00:33:00] 18 till about three years ago. They took me off my stimulants and I had a massive crash. They didn't titrate me off.

[00:33:09] Kerly Joy: They took me off cold Turkey 'cause they Oh, really? Gonna have a stroke? And wow. I certainly, I said, oh wow. This is what a drug addict feels like. It's like you could do anything to, for someone to give you that drug again. It was just like such a desperate feeling. But once that all, and then I was sleeping up to 18 hours a day, but once that caught my body calmed down from all of that. Then it was just about listen to your body.

[00:33:36] Kerly Joy: Actually I was still on my cataplexy med 'cause my cataplexy is ones that I fall. It's, I can't imagine if I had been off both of them at the same time. It would've been horrific. But it was nice to just listen to your body.

[00:33:48] Kerly Joy: 'cause I find that the medication mask you that thing, so you can't hear the signals of your body telling you to do something. So it's like you are pushing through, but your body's no, go take you through that nap right now [00:34:00] and you don't wanna listen. And then you end up having a sleep attack, hallucination and cataplexy when all you had to do was just go and lie down for that 10 minutes.

[00:34:07] David: Thank you. Thank you. Exactly. You're exactly right. It's the more you fight through it, the stronger it gets and you're not gonna win. 

[00:34:15] Kerly Joy: Yeah, 

[00:34:17] David: you're right. But you will win if you take control and what I'm controlling, I'm just gonna go ahead and lay down for a little bit. 

[00:34:23] Kerly Joy: Yeah, exactly.

[00:34:23] David: Then you're gonna win. You're right. I'm happy you said that because it's so true. 

[00:34:27] liz: So you've worked with lots of top dogs, right? The NFL 

[00:34:33] David: top one, A couple. 

[00:34:34] liz: Did you say some Olympians as well?

[00:34:37] David: Yes. Yes. 

[00:34:38] liz: How has narcolepsy and your experience of that shaped the way that you work with athletes when they're going through things like recovery or, just in general?

[00:34:49] David: It really hasn't shaped it any, because I put up a barrier there, meaning it wasn't until I went into 100%. Athletes, different ones, they know it [00:35:00] now, but it's not like I, as I'm working on, I'm like, oh your hamstrings are tight. And by the way, I have narcolepsy. It's not like that.

[00:35:07] David: But a few of 'em have opened up and we've had the communications and talked and most of the time when. I've let them know I have it. It's for a purpose for them. And what I mean by that is say if they're really struggling with they're, they've had an injury and they're gonna have to miss some gains and stuff like that, and they're just really frustrated about it, then I'm able, as I'm working, I'm say, Hey, you know what?

[00:35:34] David: You can, you're gonna be all right. You're gonna make it back. Look at me, look what I did. I have narcoleptics in what you have nar. So I'm able to use it as a shock factor to encourage them to keep going. I, for, I didn't really come out, in the narcolepsy world, people knew I had narcolepsy, but out in the general world, I didn't come out with it a whole lot until probably [00:36:00] 2019 when I became 100% self-employed because I still always had that fear and.

[00:36:08] David: We do, and we're working. If you're not working at the right job your job could be in danger. And of course, I know there's the laws and they can't fire you for having narcolepsy, but they can fire you. They can fire for other things. Yes. And you're gonna be on their around radar. So you do have to navigate that carefully in those situations.

[00:36:29] David: But now that I am my own boss and I have my own business, nobody's shutting me down, nobody's gonna tell me when I'm done working again. I'm able to really branch out, start helping more people now and weave the narcolepsy into my life. 

[00:36:44] liz: And has your knowledge of narcolepsy in terms of how it, you know how to manage it with lots of different things like fitness, diet other kind of things you do day to day strategies.

[00:36:56] David: I think you're, yeah, I think, because I'm very [00:37:00] disciplined with my regimen to keep my narcolepsy in a good place. And I know that tomorrow I could wake up and everything I've worked hard for and built is all gone and destroyed because my symptoms came back full force.

[00:37:15] David: I know that's possible. Do I believe it's gonna happen? No, but I'm still realistic. I'm you. It could but that doesn't change the fact that every day I'm gonna stick to my regimen. I'm gonna do everything I possibly can, put myself in the best position. And the same way with an athlete, if they wanna win, they're not guaranteed they're gonna win, but they have to do everything they can to put themselves in the best position to win.

[00:37:37] David: So with my narcolepsy, I have to do everything I can to put myself in that best position to win. 

[00:37:42] Kerly Joy: I like that. Yeah. I like that. That's a really good one. Yeah. 

[00:37:47] liz: Do you have any strategies that you use mentally, because you seem to, you have such a positive outlook and such a kind of, a wrong way of dealing with narcolepsy.

[00:37:59] liz: [00:38:00] How do you mentally carry that load? 

[00:38:03] David: That, that's been through years of you should see my library, it's like a self-help museum. You should see my audio book. 

[00:38:12] David: My audio book's on my phone. It's like a self-help museum. And it's a good thing because like when I'm driving, I'm not listening to the radio, I'm listening to motivational things.

[00:38:24] David: I'm listening to self-help stuff, and it's stories that people's gone through and overcame. That's what I want to put in my mind because you know how many times. Do you hear a song and bam, you know all the words to it because you've been listening to it in the car over and over? The more we're listening to positive things and putting good things into our head, the more it's gonna come out and the more we're gonna be able to live it.

[00:38:49] David: Mentally I just think, we've already got this going against us, the narcolepsy. So what are we gonna combat it with? Are we gonna combat it with alcohol? Are we gonna combat it with [00:39:00] friends that gossip all the time? Are gonna combat it with people that's upset and negative and or are we gonna combat it with positive things?

[00:39:07] David: And so that's, I don't know that really answers your question, but 

[00:39:11] Kerly Joy: Yeah, it does. 

[00:39:12] David: That's why I do 

[00:39:13] Kerly Joy: it. Makes a lot of sense.

[00:39:15] Kerly Joy: Became, I like that. I never thought of it like that with the music. 'cause it's true. It is funny. Music is the one thing that your brain doesn't need permission to let it in.

[00:39:22] Kerly Joy: Like when you read, you have to open your eyes in order to. For the brain to take the information and store it in your brain and or when you watch a movie or something like that, it's visual. It comes in. If you close your eyes, you can't see it or whatever you, but with your ears, there isn't that filter.

[00:39:37] Kerly Joy: So sometimes you might hear yourself singing a song and you're like, huh, I dunno this song, I don't even know this artist or humming something that it's a type of music that you've never even like why? 'Cause as you go about your day, the brain filter is just taken in all the music, all the sound, and then it's storing it up there.

[00:39:56] Kerly Joy: It doesn't need your consent, it just goes in. And I like what you were [00:40:00] saying about, listening to something in the car because brain doesn't need consent to let things in for your ears. It means that if you are pumping positive things all around you all the time.

[00:40:10] David: That's so true. That's so true. 

[00:40:12] liz: Do you have any specific recommendations for. Self-help books or motivational things that you've read or listened to that you feel like could help other people with narcolepsy? 

[00:40:25] David: One is Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. The other one is I read it all the time.

[00:40:33] David: Let me used to have a copy up there. Shoot I will think of it here in a second. 

[00:40:38] liz: No worries. We're very used to mind Microsoft. Yeah. 

[00:40:43] David: The Brain Fog. You guys get it? You guys get it? Yes. Yes. 

[00:40:46] Kerly Joy: One you said Seven Habits of 

[00:40:49] David: Highly Effective People. 

[00:40:51] liz: At the moment, I'm reading The Power of Now.

[00:40:55] liz: Which is about staying as present as possible. And it's [00:41:00] very hard. But I'm trying, 

[00:41:02] David: I just finished here actually about a week ago. I try to do four books a month and I do 'em all in audiobook because I, if I really like the book, I try to listen to an book I like go ahead and purchase it and put it in my library.

[00:41:14] David: 'cause I just like having the hard back. But with my narcolepsy, that's something that it'll take me six months to read a book. 'Cause I start reading 15 minutes later let's be real five minutes later and I'm falling asleep. 

[00:41:27] David: So I do audio books and I, it's four books a month I'm reading, but I just finished Mel Robbins.

[00:41:34] David: Let Them Theory. That's the one I highly recommend also. 

[00:41:39] liz: Good to know. I've heard of that one. 

[00:41:42] David: You should do it. You should do it. Yeah, definitely. Shoot that other one. It's killing me because it's so good. Everybody needs to watch or listen to the, read the book. It's an old book. It's been around for years, upon years, and then they made a movie from it [00:42:00] as well.

Advice for Listeners

[00:42:00] liz: If there was one lesson or one thing that you could go back and tell your younger self when you were going through that really difficult period, what would you see to that person? 

[00:42:13] David: Probably hold your head up.

[00:42:15] David: I know you don't believe it, but it's gonna get better.

[00:42:20] Kerly Joy: Yeah. 

[00:42:21] liz: A very important thing for. Lots of people to hear all of us when we're having 

[00:42:25] Kerly Joy: Yeah, no, sure. 

[00:42:26] liz: Really rough times. 

[00:42:27] Kerly Joy: It doesn't stay there. 

[00:42:30] David: No it tough. I, I still remember Thanksgiving one year when everybody was coming over and my entire Thanksgiving I was on the sofa laying on my side, because of the sleep paralysis.

[00:42:44] David: And I'd had so many cataplexy that day that I wasn't even able to move. I just had drill running outta my mouth and tears come outta my eyes. And I could only see somebody that got right in the direct view. And of course, you can hear everything that's going on, but you're [00:43:00] basically in a coma to them with your eyes open.

[00:43:03] David: And it's so captivating. You feel like you're such a prisoner. You're a prisoner or your own body. And, but it's good to think. When you get back to the place where you're doing good, it's good. Often, like today for us, talking about me going back and revisiting that, because that reminds you how important it is to be out there inspiring, giving hope, helping serving those that are not where you're at yet.

[00:43:28] liz: You have the best experience to guide those people. You're an expert by lived experience. Is that what they 

[00:43:34] Kerly Joy: Yes. 

[00:43:34] David: Yeah. 

[00:43:35] Kerly Joy: Hundred 

[00:43:35] David: percent, 

[00:43:36] Kerly Joy: yes.

[00:43:36] liz: And what's next for you in terms of your advocacy for people with narcolepsy? 

[00:43:41] David: Napoleon Hill, that's the name of the author of the book.

[00:43:45] David: I haven't got the rest of it yet, but Napoleon Bill, so write that down. The rest will come. Sorry. What's next for helping people with narcolepsy? I have the narcolepsy group. I start, I. [00:44:00] Worked with the lady and we were starting a docuseries on my life story, narcolepsy, and we were trying to get some funding for it.

[00:44:07] David: We needed just 20 K we needed. And we were gonna do a six part docuseries of my life story. And funding wasn't coming in at the time. So that's on hold, but that's something I want to do. And it wasn't a thing where I'm gonna make any money off it, it's just I want to get that out there into the world and but keep going strong with narcolepsy, naturally.

[00:44:31] David: And doing what I can, where I'm at. It, we don't, the world doesn't need a hundred people trying to serve everybody. What the world needs is each person trying to serve one.

[00:44:43] David: And then we can make a difference. 

[00:44:44] Kerly Joy: A hundred percent. 

[00:44:45] David: Start where you're at, start in your community.

[00:44:47] David: Start. A group, once a month, put it out there where anybody has narcolepsy in your comp, compute in your community. Get together. You guys don't have to have all the answers. You don't have to go through all the [00:45:00] diagnosis or all the medications. You just have to get together and talk. Talk about life.

[00:45:06] David: You don't have to talk about narcolepsy. Narcolepsy is what brings you together, but

[00:45:09] David: we're, just like you become friends with, say, soccer moms they're at the soccer fields all the time, so they watching their kids play. So they become friends and they start talking, and they're not talking about soccer all the time.

[00:45:21] David: They're talking about getting their nails done, their hair done. One guy looks hot out on the field, kid. That's what they're talking about. Same way with us, with narcolepsy, if we come together, narcolepsy is our soccer field, that's what brings us together. And then let's talk about life.

[00:45:37] David: Let's life together.

[00:45:37] Kerly Joy: I love that. 

[00:45:39] liz: I really 

[00:45:39] Kerly Joy: like that. Nice together. I like 

[00:45:42] liz: particularly in a world that feels like it's falling apart, it's nice to think that you can just make a small difference, in your immediate circle in whatever way that might be.

[00:45:54] Kerly Joy: I love that. Dave, thank you for coming on Narcolepsy navigators.

[00:45:59] Kerly Joy: [00:46:00] So happy that you said yes and it's been really interesting podcast. It's really touching and emotional and it, I like that you are able to feel confident enough to be vulnerable. I think this is going to, it has been very difficult for me to find a lot of men that wanna speak about their narcolepsy.

[00:46:17] Kerly Joy: And so I think yeah. Hearing your side is I think it's gonna be really be beneficial to the men out there as well, but like everyone, especially the men as well. 

[00:46:28] David: I appreciate that. Like I said, it was an honor to be on here. Your podcast is the first one that I've given my story to as far as on a podcast.

[00:46:37] David: I felt that you definitely was worth it and I wanted to be a part of anything I can do to help out,

[00:46:44] Kerly Joy: thank you. I'm here. You're the second person that has done that. Last year we interviewed Matilda, who's now on the team. She was the youngest diagnosed Narcoleptic at age three, and her mom Claire wrote. waking Matilda and and so her mom's [00:47:00] very big in the advocacy thing, and she runs she's on Hypersomnia Foundation.

[00:47:05] David: Okay. 

[00:47:05] Kerly Joy: But when we reached out, Matilda had never been interviewed. She'd never been said yes to an interview until our, she's 

[00:47:13] liz: not three anymore. She's now 

[00:47:16] Kerly Joy: 19.

[00:47:16] Kerly Joy: She's 19. 

[00:47:17] liz: Just to clarify. 

[00:47:19] David: That's good 

[00:47:20] Kerly Joy: because 

[00:47:21] David: there's child labor laws, you can't have her work.

[00:47:23] Kerly Joy: Yeah. So it was nice. And so you're the second person that's said, the first I have the story, which is brilliant. I love that. 

[00:47:30] liz: Should I ask the red button question? 

[00:47:33] Kerly Joy: Okay. Without using ask advocacy people, but yeah let's see what 

[00:47:37] liz: he say. I think I say the answer, but we'll ask and see what you say.

[00:47:40] liz: It's always nice to end on this. Alright. Okay. If you could press a red button and never have experienced narcolepsy, would you do it? And why? 

[00:47:50] David: Absolutely not. No. Why? I'm thankful I have narcolepsy. The list goes on and on. I would've still been working in a factory. [00:48:00] I, where. I was making a good living, but it was just basically I would be working, I'd retire and I would die because of narcolepsy.

[00:48:12] David: I work on Olympic gold medalist winners. I work on professional athletes. I work on amazing people every day that are just normal people that are amazing that I get to share my story with and get to hear their stories. I wouldn't have met the beautiful girl I have. I wouldn't have. It's endless, I would, I'm thankful every day that I have narcolepsy, every day I come in to work on these people, it's a reminder and it helps me to be a better therapist because I appreciate what I'm able to do.

[00:48:44] David: And yeah, so absolutely give that button to somebody else. I don't want it. 

[00:48:48] Kerly Joy: I love it. I love it. 

[00:48:51] liz: Thanks so much, David. See, I knew it would be a nice way to end this, the episode on a very positive note. 

[00:48:58] Kerly Joy: Oh, I love it. Just [00:49:00] sometimes we ask people we're not sure what they're gonna say. It's so funny.

[00:49:02] Kerly Joy: Sometimes we're like, definitely they're gonna say this, and then they say the complete opposite and we're like, 

[00:49:05] liz: yeah, 

[00:49:06] Kerly Joy: what 

[00:49:07] David: Something you can do. And I, this is something great for everybody to do and this brings tears to my eyes thinking about it 'cause it's emotional. But I'm about three years ago when I was having this, and it wasn't with narcolepsy, it was with some life issues.

[00:49:23] David: And I'm okay, the best way to get through this is go serve somebody else. That has less than I do. Who has less? Who is going through a harder time than I am, who has something worse than me? I need to go be a blessing to them. And by doing that makes you feel better and you get through it.

[00:49:40] David: So three years ago, and I was alone for Christmas, and in my office here, I decided that I was gonna have people start bringing donations. And I was able to take over a hundred hats, a hundred pairs of gloves and a hundred blankets to the homeless camps here in Columbus, Ohio, and go into their [00:50:00] tents that were covered in snow on Christmas Day.

[00:50:03] David: And they, were homeless, they had nothing. They're out in the snow. And I was able to show up and be a Santa Claus to them and just give it to 'em. And I didn't have much myself, but I was able to do that. So find people that you can help that's going through a harder time.

[00:50:19] David: Don't ever let. Narcolepsy, become your crutch. Use it as something positive to help somebody else because we're not gonna die of narcolepsy. Our life might be hell sometimes, there's no doubt about that. But we don't have cancer. There's people dying every day at the cancer. There's people every day, something's going on that is far worse than what we have, even though ours can be horrible.

[00:50:45] David: So that's what I'm saying. Just think about those people when you're going through your worst days. 

[00:50:49] Kerly Joy: A hundred percent. Thank you, David. 

[00:50:52] liz: Thank you. 

[00:50:53] David: You're welcome. 

[00:50:54] Kerly Joy: You have a good rest of your day. What are your social handles so people can find [00:51:00] you? 

[00:51:00] David: You can type in dk motivations.com.

[00:51:06] David: And that will go actually to my massage site. But you're, you can find me, get a hold of me there. You can type in my Muscletherapypro@gmail.com. That's my email. And of course, narcolepsy, naturally on Facebook, you can look that up. And so that's another way.

[00:51:24] David: I wish I could remember Napoleon Hills.

[00:51:27] Kerly Joy: Yeah, of course. Yeah. 

[00:51:28] David: Okay. Because this is one that you want to look up.

[00:51:34] David: Think and Grow Rich. 

[00:51:37] Kerly Joy: Oh yes. 

[00:51:39] David: So 

[00:51:39] liz: think and Grow Rich. Okay. 

[00:51:40] David: Yeah. And I didn't read that for the longest time in my life because I'm like, oh, this is just a book of how to get rich. 

[00:51:48] Kerly Joy: Yeah. 

[00:51:48] David: It's not, it's rich in, not just in finances. It's rich in life, rich in who you are in the stories in there. And these are real life [00:52:00] events, but you can actually, if you go onto I think YouTube, you can find they actually have a, the book, they've turned into a movie here a couple years ago, and it is really touching.

[00:52:13] David: It'll make you cry. It'll give you courage, it'll give you hope, it'll give you inspiration. Think and Grow Rich. 

[00:52:19] Kerly Joy: Yeah. I read it so many years ago when I was in my twenties, so it's That's good. I should re I should get the audio and redo it. Re-listen to, 

[00:52:27] liz: wait. It was released in 1937. 

[00:52:30] David: Yeah. The original one.

[00:52:31] David: Yeah. But I highly encourage you if you can, to find it on where you can watch the movie that came out I think probably about five years ago or something like that. But watch it because it's one thing to read it, but then to actually see it 

[00:52:47] Kerly Joy: And 

[00:52:47] David: what these people, obstacles they had in their life and what they overcame.

[00:52:51] David: And that's what it's about. It's about all these different people had these obstacles in their life and they overcame 'em. And that's what we're doing. We, narcolepsy is our obstacle. 

[00:52:59] David: And [00:53:00] when you see, since you've read the book already, some of the things that we now live with and we take for granted, turn the light bulb on.

[00:53:06] David: What if that person decided I can't overcome my obstacle? 

[00:53:10] Kerly Joy: Yeah, 

[00:53:11] David: We wouldn't have light. We 

[00:53:12] Kerly Joy: wouldn't have it.

[00:53:12] David: So question. What are we gonna do with narcolepsy? If we give up, what are we depriving the world of?

[00:53:18] Kerly Joy: And that's why I do the podcast because I just felt there's so many stories out there that's not being told and they have to be, we gotta tell them my goal is to get one story from every country in the world.

[00:53:31] David: I love that. 

[00:53:32] Kerly Joy: Yeah. 

[00:53:33] David: Are you gonna have an interpreter? 

[00:53:35] Kerly Joy: Yeah. We've done one with interpreter before. 

[00:53:36] Kerly Joy: The lady in Chi. . That's awesome. I would like more of that and we're applying for funding so that we could have them translate it into all the languages we can

[00:53:45] David: Okay.

[00:53:46] Kerly Joy: Be so that people can actually appreciate it in their own tongue.

[00:53:52] Kerly Joy: Thank you David. 

[00:53:53] David: You're welcome.

[00:53:53] liz: It was very nice to meet you. 

[00:53:55] David: Thank you. Nice to meet you. . Please have a great day. Enjoy London. 

[00:53:58] Kerly Joy: Thank you. [00:54:00] Bye 

[00:54:00] liz: bye. 

[00:54:01] David: Bye.

[00:54:02] Speaker 3: Narcolepsy Navigators is produced by a team of volunteers working for the Naps For Life CIC, which is a nonprofit group dedicated to improving the lives of people with sleep disorders through community action. You can help grow our podcast and join our sleep disorder support group by visiting the website www.napsforlife.com.

[00:54:31] Speaker 3: If you or someone you know has a sleep disorder and would like to share your story on Narcolepsy Navigators, please email us at narcolepsynavigators@gmail.com. You can also support us by donating at the website. Happy napping everyone